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DazzlinDonna’s take on SEO news, tips and theories.
I Refuse To Participate In The Vicious Nastiness Going On In Our Industry
I’m done. I’ve had all I can take of the vicious, nasty, cr@p that has been going on in our little industry. Sure, SEOs have disagreed with one another from day one, usually on forums. That’s nothing new. Sometimes it got nasty. That’s nothing new. But I’ve never, ever seen things get this bad before, and you know what I blame it on? Blogging. That’s right. Blogging.
Don’t get me wrong. I love blogging. I love blogs. I love the interaction, the conversations, the ability to get to know people, and the ability to read different viewpoints. Blogging can bring the best of those we never knew before to light.
Unfortunately, blogging also brings out the worst of the worst, who now have easy access to “speaking their minds”. And the nasty remarks made in blog posts simply feed more nasty remarks made on more blogs, and those remarks feed conversations in forums and social networks, and more blogging occurs, feeding more nasty remarks, and those remarks…well, you get the picture.
You want to know what else I blame all this nastiness on? Boredom. Our industry has stagnated. We “know it all” already. The mystery is gone. There’s nothing left to talk about that hasn’t already been said a thousand different times, and a hundred different ways (with the other 900 times being rehashes of the same things others already said - dup content, as it were).
If you are blissfully unaware of the latest goings-on, I’ll let you stay blissfully unaware. I won’t link to any of the BS. I won’t summarize it all for you. You either have been slapped in the face by it, or you’re tip-toe’ing through the tulips without a clue. (And that’s a state I wish I could return to).
Those that are being the most vicious…I wash my hands of you forever. I refuse to even think your name in my mind. Poof! You’re gone.
Those that are feeding into the nastiness, but aren’t actually being vicious yourselves, I humbly ask you to stop for a moment and consider stepping out of the entire situation as I am doing right now. I understand how easy it is to get involved, and how hard it is to reject the situation completely, but all I can do is ask you to at least consider doing so. If you choose to stay and participate in the feeding frenzy, I won’t judge you or feel any differently about you. But I hope … maybe … some of you will walk away from it as I am doing.
Only by completely rejecting this ENTIRE type of viciousness can we hope to defuse it. Well, that’s my opinion, anyway. I might be wrong, but it doesn’t look like participating has defused it any, right? So how about we try something different?
For those reasons, I’ll be scarce at our industry’s biggest social network(s), where much of this is bubbling up. In addition, I’ll be much quieter … everywhere, including here.
For the next few months, I’ll be spotlighting the people in the Search Bloggers list, as I’ve already begun to do. I can assure you that I will NOT be spotlighting any kind of nasty, negative blog posts such as I’ve seen lately around our industry. Instead I’ll be focusing on showing you blog posts from the wonderful people in our industry that you may or may not have heard of. And during this time of focusing on our industry’s best posts, I may not be doing much blogging here myself, simply because I need to refocus on the positive aspects of our world. And the best way for me to do that is to concentrate on shining some light on the positive people and their positive thoughts. That’s mostly what you’ll see here for the next couple of months. If that’s not what you want to see, let me apologize in advance. But I need to step back and simply highlight the people and ideas that I think are worthy “out there”, rather than risk feeding into this negativity by being unable to hold my tongue. I hope that’s ok with at least some of you.
Hopefully, in time, there will be new SEO mysteries to write about, and new attitudes in our industry. At that point, I’ll likely have lots more to say. 
Peace, y’all.
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43 Responses to “I Refuse To Participate In The Vicious Nastiness Going On In Our Industry”
Trackbacks
- Links Roundup - July 24th 2008
- Firetown.com Business Blogs » Blog Archive » Domaining and SEO are the industries of leaches.
- Far Too Many SEOs Are Just Plain Nasty « John H Gohde on John Honeck (JLH)
- SEO Book.com
July 21st, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Thank you for speaking up. In the past week I’ve heard from so many people and all are 100% in agreement with your sentiments. Pre-2002 SEO’s were sought out and admired for their knowledge. They also got along with each other.
Blogs, then SM, and more people with access to laptops has created huge barriers rather than created any peaceful coexistence. I took down my Sphinn plugin today because I can’t be part of the toxic meat market there. I can get real news elsewhere.
The outgrowth of this shift into personal attacks are the rise in private online groups that are member only. We’re going back to our tribal ways out of sheer necessity.
July 21st, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Very well said, Donna. I am sure that 95 percent of those in your audience who know what is going on feel the same way. If only social media could be sociable media. Thankfully many of them are. The exceptions often allow behavior which is socially inept and usually against any discussion rules they may have about mutual respect.
We all have an easy solution. If we do not like what we see on a blog or in one of the social media, then we can just cross it off our list. If many others adopt that solution, then perhaps the message will get through.
July 21st, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Donna, I agree completely with almost everything you said. Almost. However, in my opinion, blogging is not to blame. Neither is boredom.
Responsibility for an individual’s actions rests with the individual. Always.
This month’s tempest, in my experience, is nothing new and certainly nothing newsworthy. It happens every few years and I could probably cite the names of most of the instigators from the past decade. I won’t, though, because no one else would even recognize their names. They’re all gone, washed away in the backwash of their own vitriol. They had their fifteen minutes of infamy, inevitably at the expense of others, and then faded into the obscurity from which they arose. They had nothing concrete to offer, nothing notable to commend.
I applaud you, Donna, for not linking to the (what was the word you used?) cr@p. You should, however, probably write yourself a reminder of who this post is about. ‘Cause a year from now you won’t even be able to remember their name.
July 21st, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Good for you! I do think boredom is to blame. Bored of the same old articles and posts on how to get links or ways to game social media. Yes, I too yearn for the good old days when I could learn from an online debate instead of walking away from the computer disgusted as I have been lately.
What it boils down to, in my not so humble opinion, is “those” people can’t get the attention they crave from the “community” by writing good quality “fresh” content so they resort to personal attacks, name calling and childish boorish behavior.
Too many voices, too much noise. Donna you’ll be missed but peace be unto you.
July 21st, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Hey Donna, I do not think blogging is the reason. I think it’s social networking and how it enables people to promote their stuff just by using a platform that enables them to get instant exposure and also increases readership by causing controversy. You don’t have to be a genius to make headlines, you just need to find somebody who is someone and then attack him. Instant fame. Fame thru flame.
Anyways, that is what I believe to be the reason.
Mike
July 21st, 2008 at 9:29 pm
I have to agree Donna. The last few weeks have been destructive and little has been achieved.
Kudos to you for your search marketers series. It’s an awesome initiative and a shining beacon in an industry flushed with negativity.
July 21st, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Well said, Donna. I applaud the sentiments wholeheartedly. At the same time, I agree with Ron Carnell. It’s too easy to blame blogs and social media sites. Ultimately, responsibility lies at the feet of the individual.
July 21st, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Its not just blogging being affected, its every single aspect of SEO in web 2.0. Submitted my site to a SEO news service (deleted along with my account). Contribute thought out, educated and informed comments into blogs (declined). Sadly, it seems to be no longer about sharing information and ideas but instead, its about blocking information from sites which might be seen to be competing with you and rather then allowing your readers to be introduced to new concepts or a different opinion the rational is block, ban and/or discredit to keep the end user thinking your the bees knees.
And sure, things have been rehashed more times then one but I seriously doubt those that determine themselves to be an authority of the subject rarely (if ever) mention prior art and the fact that in most cases they have rehashed someone else’s work… and to be honest not much has really happened from a white hat perspective in the industry for the past 5-8 years that wasn’t happening before then.
It really seems to be a dog eat dog type of attitude.
July 21st, 2008 at 10:50 pm
“We “know it all” already. The mystery is gone.” - that is your best line in the post - I enjoyed that one.
Dave
July 22nd, 2008 at 12:23 am
Allow me to stay ontopic by not stating the gist of the story. Please answer this question, if you know it all:
What are *all* the factors that influence online surfing and buying behavior without being registered by the mind? Emotions are obvious, what else?
Or, if you can’t answer the question, do you think those, who were writing about (I don’t think I even know them) have a complete answer to this question?
Could it be simply that people started doing more things (or writing more things) instead of researching further into objectively showing the value of what they are promoting?
Thanks.
P.S. The day I stop learning I suspect I’ll change the job.
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:40 am
I just love this quote of yours:
“There’s nothing left to talk about that hasn’t already been said a thousand different times, and a hundred different ways (with the other 900 times being rehashes of the same things others already said - dup content, as it were).”
I would say that the real problem is Google. Yahoo and MSN are not nearly as picky as Google has become.
I can put a new Spinn on what has been said 900 time before and be ignored by Google. But, post the lastest Gossip. And, Google cannot snap it up fast enough.
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:49 am
Good post Donna. Luckily I missed most of this on my holidays but you’ve convinced me not to get involved now. Maybe everything just falls apart when Danny’s gone?
July 22nd, 2008 at 4:26 am
Well said, Donna. When people “express themselves” that doesn’t mean that they throw out netiquette in a bid to share their viewpoint. I’ve been staying away from many of the nasty sites for that reason — I respect their right to have an opinion, but I don’t want it slapped in my face either.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:21 am
IMHO SEO’s, can be the most conceited, small minded individuals in webdom. Without doubt the nastiest people I’ve experienced in forums are SEO’s, quick to sneer, quick to gloat, quick to spout utter nonsense.
Take heart, there are good guys out there
d
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:15 am
As always, you’ve summed things up beautifully. There are certain people in the industry who seem to have gained a following by attempting to “take down” a few of the more high-profile SEOs, and it’s truly disgusting how many personal attacks have been launched against people that I have the utmost respect for, especially a few notable women that I admire. I seriously doubt the ones at fault would be this hateful if they had to say these things in person to someone.
July 22nd, 2008 at 9:16 am
Well said, Donna. I’ve seen some of it. I probably haven’t seen all of it. This private stuff getting public airing gives me the willies. I don’t like it. Its as if every individual can be treated like a politician or public celebrity….all to be blasted for the gossip and entertainment value for the rest of us. It simply makes me uncomfortable. Sure I’ve engaged in it, in one form or other over the years. It always leaves me with an uncomfortable feeling in my stomach.
Thanks for speaking out on the topic.
Dave
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:05 am
I’ve been “harboring” a post about the “yuckiness” put forth online by peers and industry leaders. Throughout civilization, maliciousness is expressed in various forms. Social Media is today’s form of expression.
Out of the heart, the fingers type…
We are who we associate with. Time to move on, stop thinking about their venom, and associate with those who really care about value. Thank you for leading the charge!
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:13 am
I definitely agree with you. It’s a shame that there’s so much viciousness in this industry. I used to think it was just the competitive nature; but now it’s more than that.
It’s shame that you’ve decided to be less vocal in the social networks; I have always valued your opinion(s).
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:35 am
Amen Donna. As someone who has been the target of some of these recent attacks, I despair of what it’s doing to the industry.
Some people try to tell me it’s limited to a couple of individuals and not a reflection of the industry as a whole, but it’s getting harder and harder to see it that way since it’s becoming so pervasive. The nastiness is spreading across so many different sites and venues, it’s ridiculous to think it’s not influencing other people’s impressions of SEOs as a group.
The attacks on me are entirely personal (and ridiculous and unprovoked) but I’ve done everything I could to stay clear of this firestorm - to the point of asking my supporters to keep me out of it. It’s getting harder and harder to ignore what’s going on, and I’m ready to wash my hands of everything all together. I don’t know how much longer I can bite my tongue before it falls off.
July 22nd, 2008 at 11:18 am
Great post. I have to agree. I’ve noticed, especially recently, that people are skipping over constructive criticism and going straight for the throat…and for no apparent reason. Even if you disagree with what someone is writing (b/c a good chunk of blogs are opinion-based), there’s no need to leave disparaging comments. I’m beginning to think that people are feeling compelled to leave nasty comments because it will draw attention to them, thereby helping to drive traffic back to their blogs or something? What do you think?
July 22nd, 2008 at 11:29 am
I’m sorry but I love viciousness in the industry. As long as it doesn’t concern anyone close to me.
Am I bored? — Yes.
Do I have thick skin? — Oh yes.
Am I easily shocked? — No, I’m Dutch.
I feel that ever since SM kicked in and people started hunting for rep, linkbait and excitement rather than just linkjuice, things have turned a bit prickly and personal.
- It’s a fair cop, but society is to blame.
– Ok, so we’ll arrest them instead.
In other words: I don’t blame people for speaking their mind and getting personal anymore. If you think I’m wrong, then please PM me an example of someone overdoing it.
July 22nd, 2008 at 12:36 pm
I think this is a learning experience.
Words are words on a page. We don’t know the motivation or intent in some cases. Emoticons help but they’re not used in blogs. It can be so difficult to understand what someone is writing sometimes. The use of cuss words and name calling is a good indicator of emotion and intent from some people. But even at that, it’s still not always the whole story and we have very little to go on.
So we rely on existing reputation, past actions and other things. Those things are helpful but can also be manipulated, such as editing blog comments.
We can choose to be hurt. We can choose to inflict hurt. We can choose to focus on our work for our clients. We can choose to not participate in places where freedom of speech = permission to destroy, compete and slander.
We can choose to create peace.
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:06 pm
“There’s nothing left to talk about that hasn’t already been said a thousand different times, and a hundred different ways (with the other 900 times being rehashes of the same things others already said - dup content, as it were).”
But wait! There’s more!
There is quite a bit more to talk about! There is “still” plenty of signal in this industry and I see quite a bit of it right here in this topic. Why does it need to be “segmented” like this? There needs to be a Social Networking Community for this industry that everyone can feel “safe” and “comfortable” in, yes? Can’t you take back what has been taken away? Where’s the fight that “used to be” in this industry? That is where the signal is, where the fight is!
Let’s not forget that this whole SMO/SMM exploded on the foundation of SEO/SEM. Somewhere during that transition a disconnect took place. I’d like to see it connected again, I really would.
Donna, I “really” wouldn’t write this off just yet. The industry is maturing. SEO has matured leaps and bounds from the 90s which is what many are still talking about these days unfortunately and that is where the “rehash” take place. Everyone who has been to “one” conference becomes an expert and starts producing “basic content” that in some instances can be proved to cause more harm than good.
Basic SEO is a foundation and if that foundation is not built with quality materials, performance fails. SEM/SEO/SMM/SMO IS NO LONGER BASIC! We are now in the “High Tech Era” of it all and have been for quite some time.
There is this entire underlying community of signal and “I” surely don’t want to have to traverse through all the Social Media Brothels to find it either. Someone help me! I really don’t want to have to sign up for all the gadgets, gizmos, widgets, whatchamacallits, etc. Those “chiclets” are killing my browsing experience, even in Firefox.
Donna, I’ve just recently started reading you and want to say thank you for your contributions. You’re an excellent read too! Can I ask that you reconsider your position on all of this?
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Thank you for writing this post. The negativity is so unproductive, its bad theater at best. This happened in forums years ago and now it is happening in social media settings to an even greater degree. If the energy used for this type of in fighting would be spent helping businesses or the industry it would be better used and produce a positive outcome. Not hard to do, just make a choice to make things better not worse.
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:12 pm
not sure how I missed it all - still not sure what side I was / is on
Dave pst I’m a Search Blogger
July 23rd, 2008 at 7:35 pm
This seems to be the hot new seo hangout now.
July 24th, 2008 at 12:11 am
Thanks for a really thoughtful post, Donna. I had a friend in high school that acted weird and tried to get attention all the time: they didn’t mind being praised or trashed, as long as someone was talking about them. Eventually I figured out that the only way to handle situations regarding this person was just not to talk about them. Sometimes that’s what it takes: a conscious effort to step back and go do something else when someone is trying to bait you.
July 24th, 2008 at 12:38 am
I can see the headline now:
SEO’s and Insulted by other SEO’s more often than any other job type.
I can see many reason for this
1. We are a young group
2. We run our own show most of the time, we dont really answer to anyone
3. The industry doesnt really have checks and balances. it is still the wild West out there
On an on…
July 24th, 2008 at 1:32 am
C’mon, group hug.
July 24th, 2008 at 4:06 am
I guess it’s to be expected though, really, unpleasant as it seems. Wherever you go on the internet you’ll find people who get a kick out of being douchebags online when they wouldn’t dare be so in “real life”. Naturally our career choice attracts people who enjoy spending a lot of their time online, so it’s safe to assume that a higher than normal proportion of us are going to be said douchebags. Put us all in a forum like Sphinn, essentially a massive popularity contest that encourages us to compete for attention, and you’ll be exposed to the heights of douchebaggery.
Most of us have far better things to be getting on with (work, for example). Best just to laugh at them really.
July 24th, 2008 at 6:22 am
(comment censored by DD)
July 24th, 2008 at 8:14 am
Well said! Back in the old days those people hung out at the local bars smacking heads. Nowadays they hang out on the internet smacking heads with words. Same breed - new arena.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:16 am
wow….. gotta say that I am with you as far as crawling back into our own bubbles. To me it’s about writing because we enjoy it and hanging with others because they matter to us.
As we’ve chatted about a few times over the last week it is all distasteful and troubling. Animosity seems to be far too prevalent over the last while and I’d be so much happier if we worked on our common passion; search.
I will certainly miss your musings, but love the fact you are focusing on showing love (highlighting bloggers) instead of falling into the counter-productive drama….
… maybe we can hang on ‘Private SEO’ more…. seems like something worth building….
July 24th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Dave,
you can have my old bubble, i’m not using it anymore and it’s in good condition.
=)
July 25th, 2008 at 12:21 am
Wow.. that’s two posts on two sites that I don’t understand at all because I missed everything and now it’s censored. Bummer. Not that I wanted to read the trashy events, but having read all this is such a waste when the meat’s gone already.
There’s TON of depth to SEO today, but sadly not enough depth in the online community. Just like the printed press…. “mother of twin alien girls plus… a two-headed alligator!” makes the headlines over anything geuine. At small SEO meetups I get the same sense from some people.. they barely have patience to think for more than 30 seconds. If it’s not obvious or they don’t get it right away, they become anxious to flip it off and move along. Like it would be intolerable for them to admit “I don’t understand”. Geesh…
Sometimes it’s worth thinking.. even a little maybe.
July 25th, 2008 at 7:02 am
@Paisley …. thanks for the loaner ;0)
@John, it is very true…. spend 2 weeks writing about a more technical aspect… no one cares… Write a rant or talk about industry BS and voila… it’s a home run…sigh..
July 28th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Thanks so much for this post! I think much of the nastyness comes from lack regulation in our industry and everyone is very cut throat. My policy is if someone is nasty to us then that just shows that they have nothing better to do and have way too much time on their hands :o)
July 28th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Wow… I feel like I missed the TV show everyone at the water cooler was talking about the next day. I didn’t even see / hear what happened (fine by me) So I’m in the same boat as DaveN not sure what side I’m on/in
The funny thing is it probably started out innocently enough (as maybe controversial Link-Bait) I’ve seen that cause HUGE problems before.
Relax ppl it’s the internets… be nice… and name calling is NOT link bait!
.02
August 5th, 2008 at 5:31 am
Hi Donna
Not spoken to your for a dogs age, just came back and saw this post and what you say is correct in its entirety.
Do you know what I have done for the past year? I have been concentrating on building a few wonderful websites full of unique, fresh content.
Because I am building great sites, I dont have time to get involved with the arguments.
I learned a long time to go that energies are best spent on ones own site - something that we discussed many years ago.
There’s a lesson for all there, folks. Forget the silly arguments. Any time that you are not spending writing/adding to your own sites, reading attacks/arguments and so on, you are letting money slip through your fingers.
Peace and Love